In this episode, Waseem, Rashed, and Majid dive deep into the dynamics of group identity, exploring the allure and pitfalls of belonging, the role of arrogance as a defense mechanism, and the fear of rejection. They navigate through the emotional currents of group dynamics, pointing out the cycle of creating new groups when we feel outcast, only to risk repeating the same pattern. They bring to light a critical question – is the goal to build bridges across our differences or to pull them down? Through thoughtful discourse, the trio examines the potential for interfaith dialogue as a tool for fostering understanding. Listen in as they ponder upon the old rules of human connection in today’s increasingly individualistic world, and challenge themselves and their listeners to think about how many bridges they’ve built, and how many others they’ve humanized. A thought-provoking episode that is bound to stir self-reflection and dialogue.
Transcript
Waseem: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and welcome back to Third Culture Convos. The place where third culture kids sit back, relax, and talk about the beauty of being from everywhere and nowhere at the same time. I’m your host, em, and I’m joined by you boys. You, know them as well as I do.
No. Maybe I think I might know him a bit better. And and Maji in the house. Say, what’s up guys? Up. Yeah. And today’s topic is about something that’s been really grinding my gears. It’s, I’ve been thinking about Group identity and arrogance, and especially with I, I guess I imagine the word would be converts.
So, here’s the, situation that happened and as I was scrolling through Instagram one day now I, follow a wide variety of, things. And usually I try to follow things on the opposite sides of a spectrum just to see to ha to, to create a bubble that has a bit of contrast in it.
And one of the, groups that I follow is there’s, they’re like they’re called fitna Free humor. And so fit a free humor is all like Muslim jokes, like jokes by Muslims about other like o other things. So what, like the one post that came up in context of what I’m talking about here, it was a a picture of a smiling beard, a man with a smiling beard, and it says you grow your beard for style.
I grow my beard for sunna. We are not the same. And I was like, all ha, Okay. And then I go to the next to the next post, and the next group that I follow is in context of this, are called Muslim atheists. And Muslim atheists are obviously the opposite of fitness for humor and and Muslim atheists were doing, like they were, every now and then they go on like a like a crazy posting rant.
But then they were doing a lot of character characters of Mohamed. So they were just like, drawing, this is Mohamed. And or, drawing like a, picture. And they’re saying like two stick figures and they’re like, this one is Mohamed. One of these is Mohamed. And, they would do things along those lines in order to also to, Sal do the same thing and the one thing that popped up to me that was like, oh, what this the thing that they, these both these groups could probably relate about even though they’d probably never be sitting in the same room together is that there. Like both of those posts drip with arrogance. I, feel, I don’t like, like my reaction to that is these people can’t hear each other.
They cannot actually have a conversation about each, like with each other because of this, their position, like the nature of their position and how they choose to share with the world.
Majid: They drip with arrogance and both of them require the other to make fun of. They’re not promoting their own thing, they’re just denouncing the other raha.
Please take.
Waseem: Yeah, so
Rashed: it is funny like they one needs the other to exist in order to actually be relevant. But at the same time, I just want to know what it, what makes them think in their brain that they’re better than the other. So the, first one that you said was sim, where it’s you, do this for style and I do this for, Sunna.
And it’s we are not the same. And we are not the same. We are not the same. That’s the dicker. But the thing is, okay, so and I get it. There’s always there. People use this had and they have they, whatever it is in terms of talking about how you should grow your beard a certain length and all that kind of stuff, so I can understand where they’re, getting the whole son thing from.
But even still, there’s really no clarification on that. Like even some of these people, they have their fricking beard and it’s all tethered and it’s all not, well kept but at the same time, It’s just what makes you think you’re better than someone else because of your beard or because that you feel like you’re so woke where you can, you’re so woke to the point where you’re doing these caricatures and you’re playing a, you’re playing a joke and like making a punt about the car, caricatures and what makes you think you’re so much better than someone else just because of a point that you’re trying to make. Is what I’m trying to get at. That’s the conversation I wanna have with someone, like from one of these realms. That’s, what I want to understand.
Waseem: It also
Majid: seems to fundamentally go against their belief that they keep preaching about.
So if you grew this for son, you should believe in God and you shouldn’t need to worry about your fellow man and how they are judging man or woman like humankind and how they are judging you. You should only be worried about God, and God knows your intentions for growing the beard, whether it’s style or substance, or sunna, or whatever word you want.
God will decide that you don’t need to worry about these people. You don’t need to make a Facebook post to tell them about it. Wh what are you preaching? Why, so arrogant? Where is this ar the arrogance is God to you, not you to them or anything. The other thing is, it’s the same with the others.
You, your whole purpose in life right now is that I’m beyond. The Muslim God, I’m done with that yet. All you do in life is go back and rant about the Muslim God you’ve left. If you passed that, why are you still going on about it? Who cares about
Waseem: it? What’s so great the money, God
Rashed: so starts it’s it starts with, the arrogance thing, right?
And then now we’re moving into the judgment thing where the one for example, who’s all about I do this for sudden enough, for example. Would be one of the first people to say that no one else can judge me, but my God. But you’re doing the exact same thing. That’s my
Waseem: point. My point is that they’re, both doing the exact same thing from different sides.
And I think it’s astute saying that they have a, like they require the other. Even as, I mean as specifically I’m talking about it’s so funny even the names of the groups. So Muslim atheists is You’re the Muslim atheist, like you can’t even leave Muslim, leave Muslim. Just be an atheist man.
But I understand you need to have the group label of being like, I’m a I’m not even, I’m not a, I’m not a. Regular kind of atheist. I’m this version, I’m version Muslim Point. Oh like, I’m a Muslim point. Oh atheist. That’s gonna than the normal to your atheist.
Majid: That’s what they’re proving, that’s what they’re trying to prove With this, I’m even more I, went from those guys.
You guys ran from
Waseem: these, those guys are gonna wanna be head me. For what I just said. So what do you, say atheist to, Christian. Oh, yeah. Big whoop. Woo. Oh, no, I’m so scared. And then when with even fitna free has the word fitna in the, group. So the idea is, like it mentions in the identity, the negation, the.
They existed and then neg and then the court need to negate the other in order to exist as an identity. And what’s so interesting about, this is is the implications on intergroup relations, right? So like it’s, we’re such a, like tribal creatures, right? Like we, all, we cannot even in almost in our conversation right now about these groups I’m using the term third culture kids.
And so you I could say Muslim third culture kids, I could say. And then that will put us in a particular box and then that box or third culture kids as opposed to monoculture kids or, what like the, other term. And so using these is there a way out cuz like group identity shapes our worldview in the se in it’s, so powerful and so innate and so deep.
And so old that is there even an escape? Is there a way out, like even in our, discussion right here can we transcend our, group and find, divide and find the divine within all of us?
Rashed: The thing is, like we, we discuss on the show and off of the show how we get really annoyed about.
This arrogance and judgment thing that we’re talking about. The thing is for me is I don’t know if we can avoid it, cuz I feel like it’s, they’re, I’m not gonna say it’s innate in humans, but we as people, as an individual or when you get into a group type of situation, you there, there is always, people always tend to wanna one up the other for whatever reason.
So I don’t even know how as humans, we can get away from that because it just seems like we end up doing it on so naturally, not even, and sometimes subconsciously don’t even
Waseem: realize what we’re doing.
Majid: It’s also actively being promoted. Now, like when you have a Twitter blurb or an Instagram blurb, you’re expected to label yourself.
This is your chance to label who you want to be for a second, right? So like you can choose geographic location, you can choose your interest, you can choose, but we’re forced to pigeonhole just the way our society and culture and technology. Is integrated. You are forced to be a super fan. Like when you are a super fan of a brand, that’s when they’re gonna acknowledge you, right?
They’re not gonna acknowledge you. If you just like something, they’re gonna acknowledge you. If you identify yourself as a Lego man, my entire life is Lego. Now you’ll get their attention. But if you are just like someone who, yeah, like I spend an hour a week playing with Legos. Nah, not in the end.
Yeah
Rashed: it’s,
like when you do a hashtag ha hashtag something on like your Instagram reel or something like that, get enough views for that and you’re gonna
Waseem: get paid for it. Does this mean? And it’s based
Majid: on that group mentality. Yeah. And almost that ar you’re promoting that group.
What I am using is the best and
Waseem: I’m cheerleading for it. Does social media re I guess like here’s the question. Does social media reinforce these the, sort of group barriers that. Stand that create barriers in terms of empathizing and understanding people on the others in other groups.
Majid: I don’t think it reinforces it. It exacerbates it, it makes it far worse because now you’re gonna write your tweet as a 28 year old Muslim man. I find this atrocious as a pregnant woman of three kids. Like you are removing the human being aspect and you’re trying to divide and conquer and compartmentalize further and further so that.
That human, that universal human emotion is only shared by your lot now, which is female mother, three babies, that kind of thing. That 1, 2, 3 divisions, right? So I actually think it doesn’t even reinforce, it exacerbates it a lot worse.
Rashed: And I would say that it’s made it easier to have it, as we’ve said before, to have this type of, branding of a group.
Put in the palm of your hand cuz of social media. Because if we’re gonna talk about branding in commercials and advertisements, the way it used to be before social media was basically a TV commercial. And so in a TV commercial it’s Budweiser and what do they do? They show a bunch of friends together at a bar or at a baseball stadium or something like that, and basically, and they’re, they have a certain look to them.
So now in those old, and they still just on TV now, but like in those advertisements, It’s basically, it’s saying this group of people, they look like this and they drink our product. Are you one of them? Do you wanna be one of them? And then it, and then there’s the whole thing where it’s you get a celebrity or a sports star to promote your brand and be like that person drinks our stuff, or that person uses our makeup, for example when you’re appealing to, women or anyone who wears makeup now it’s do you wanna be a part of our group?
And then it just makes it so much easier. Now it’s like Kim Kardashian for example. She can be promoting something. She’ll get, I don’t know, for every, she has how many millions of followers and every time that she posts something and, with the hashtag of whatever brand, she gets paid for it at some point.
But now it’s, in the palm of your hands.
Majid: You spoke about, you started it with these religious people. And the arrogance. And there’s almost innately, I would argue very slowly, that there’s inherent to any sort of religious argument is in arrogance that like, oh I, just wanna, so you are like, when it comes to the, like a religious leaning, I still, it’s almost inherent.
I wanna give you a count, a different example to prove the same thing to what you were saying, reinforce what you were saying. I find one group shocking in their arrogance gun owners in America.
Are we are? Are we allowed to go there, guys, or no? Absolutely. Do you guys see the connections
Waseem: I’m making
Rashed: or No? I’m fine with this.
Waseem: I think actually probably the easiest, I think that’s like the most, most welcoming group for this type of talk. Oh, you wanna say something? Sure. I’m
Majid: just saying, what would you call, what do you call this kind of behavior when the day after?
15 children, school children, small, not even like high school, have been shot, killed, murdered, innocently going to school. And the next day a congressman is making a social media on his phone showing his AR 15 and telling the president, the commander-in-chief, if you want this piece of equipment, come and get it.
Come get it from my cold dead hands. Would you, is that not arrogance? Am I off base? Tucker Carl style. Am I crazy here? Is this, maybe it’s not arrogance.
Waseem: I think I, think th this is probably exactly because it, because you, are extending it now, the loudest voices get the most attention, right?
So in every group, so where I will disagree with you is on the. So I religious group or any ideological group, let’s say, or where you fall into ideology, you don’t necessarily fall into ideology. You’re not inherently going to become arrogant. I feel like on the inside you, need to, note the tendency, like it’s a slippery slope.
And so you, Mr. Or Mrs. Whoever. However you, a group yourself, you will na like, I wanna say, like I wanna say this, you will naturally fall into an arrogant position that will create a chasms between you and others where they’re over there, they’re the other, you are the in group, they’re the outgroup, and you are better than them.
As a result of your ideas and your opinions and, your actions or whatever, you are better than all these other people. And that is a, natural slide that unless you are aware that this slide exists. And, I f it’s funny cuz I said slide actually takes you down, not up. But it’s a, funny slide that.
You, unless you’re aware of its existence, you cannot defend yourself against going down that slide and falling down that rabbit hole and being and really losing that, that sort of, your ability to have nuance and conversation and, debate and, seeing the humanity in others. Even I, I use the, we are not the same. We are not the same. We are not the same. Exactly. Means that I am better than you. Can it mean anything else? And, you with what we know as like the idealistic Islamic values. That doesn’t like, that’s, oh yeah, I am better.
It doesn’t jive. It doesn’t jive. And then at all when you and, the same. And so I’m not just picking on that group, I’m also picking on the Muslim atheist, because the Muslim atheist is doing the same thing as is the gun the, so the loud proponents, the people that actually start the Instagram page, that like take leadership, let’s say in that group and do have taken that position, right? That’s. That’s who I’m, discussing right now the loudest voices where, and I don’t know what the majority do. I don’t know, is it a silent majority that are like and I, imagine most pe I imagine that most people just walk through life, right?
They just like, mind their own business in, some places or others. And then some people don’t mind their own business, right? And they’re and they slide down that slide and they’re, and they have no idea that they’re sliding down the slide and, the nothing’s gonna get. And, even those people I’m, careful.
I’m now, right now trying to be careful not to slide down the slide and to be like, Those idiots, right?
Rashed: I almost feel like it’s, if you are going to, if you wanna be that mouthpiece and the loudest person in the room for a certain group, I feel like going down that slide is inevitable. Because in a sense, if you’re the mouthpiece, your whole purpose is to prove why your group is better than the other,
Waseem: unless you are. A part of an oppressed group,
Rashed: right? Because being a part of an oppressed group means that you’re trying to come up from the whatever’s pushing you
video1438211691: down,
Waseem: right? Whatever injustice is, being done to whatever’s, yeah. To your group. To your group. So and it takes a lot of, and leadership
Rashed: to be that bad piece because in that case, your really, your whole Your purpose at that point and your mo at that point is not to prove that you’re better than another group.
You’re trying to prove as to why you shouldn’t be oppressed. So your, whole standpoint is not about I’m better than you at this point. It’s more so why can’t I have the same rights as you? Why can’t it be
Waseem: as equal as you? Yes,
Majid: and that was exemplified the press abused this, manipulated this very carefully with Malcolm X.
They made him like, oh yo, yo, he’s really arrogant and vi, like he’s all about violence. And they changed it from yo, I’m oppressed and I’m trying to help my people. Independence and stuff. And they changed it. They manipulated it with their words and their fancy tongues. Into hiss, uppity, and arrogant.
And same with Dr. King kind of thing that, oh, when they use the word uppity, it’s arrogant. Like
Waseem: even he’s better than us. Even currently. I think this is, I’ve been watching the Venicia junior so, for those of you that don’t know, Venicia Jr. Is a Brazilian a dark-skinned Brazilian soccer player that plays in Spain for real Madrid.
And he is he’s a tricky player. So as in he’s very fast. And can get pa can humiliate defenders. And so they’re, they humiliate
Rashed: defenders, my God. He can he
Waseem: can he can and does poetry
Rashed: and motion my friends. And he is young. And
Waseem: he is young. And so the, press and the fans and other players are they, do a lot of racist abuse against him. They, do a lot of racist things and then you can see, and and it culminated over the weekend in a game where he stopped, he stopped playing because there were some fans that were making monkey noises and gestures right in front of him, and he stopped and was just yelling at them.
And this wasn’t the first, the second, the third time, the fourth time. And his, beef, or what he’s saying is that if these. If all of these actions continuously go unpunished as they have over the last few years since I’ve been playing in Spain then there are no punishments being like, this is not being dealt with.
Like you you say no room for racism. You put a cool logo where there’s no room in between the lines and you say, okay, we did our job. But. It, culminates in that thing and apparently in the, in the sort of Spanish media. So he got into, so a little bit after the, game was stopped because he was challenging the, fans the sort of the goalkeeper rushed him.
The, opposing team goalkeeper rushed him. There was a ruckus, someone was holding head, locking him from behind, and then he turned around and hit the guy. And the ref saw the hit, but didn’t see the headlock, and so gave him a red card. And so he got, he ca he, he was sent off in that match. And so of course it’s all falling apart, like the whole match is falling apart over these incidents.
And, but the conversation later in the press was, yeah, people were being racist against Venicia maybe, but Venicia was asking for it. And so there was a lot of that blaming the victim mentality and, a false equivalence between he, is he, is humiliating the other players by dribbling past them, and so it’s okay and it’s all part of the, heated game, right?
So like fans are allowed to say what they want. And so that’s where, it’s going and it’s where you see a lot of this sort of this even in, in sports, right? Like the group in sports. The sports, the team that you follow they literally have the term like ultras, right?
Like it’s you get the tattoo you, live and die. The day they lose, the day they win. Like you live and die by this group that like you, attach yourself to this group and you bec you’re in it. And my team’s better than all the other teams. Like it’s, I don’t see where the difference is. I think it’s the same as what we were just talking
Rashed: about. The biggest difference I guess. What, yes, the arrogance is there and all, but the dangerous part about the ultras is the fact that they tend to be the violent groups out of the supporter groups for whichever club has an ultra section.
Majid: If we’re talking about groups and arrogance, FIFA is like top five all time. And I’m a football fan. The crazy point is all three of us love the sport of football. This is for as much as we talk about UEFA and fifa, we actually love this sport. It’s the people, the, like the body, the governing body, the group, and their arrogance behind that group mentality.
And this Vinny Junior thing is, The it’s crystal clear, like the arrogance with which FIFA has approached the problem solving for this issue is a joke atrocious, and it’s an insult to everyone’s intelligence. First and foremost, the players who were abused. First and foremost them because it’s not just Vinny Junior and it’s been happening for years with Vinny Junior.
This isn’t a solo incident, and it’s really weird that the victim gets blamed every time. Vi people aren’t questioning Vinny Junior. Why is he ta, why is he acting so unprofessional? Why can’t he just get on with it? Yes, shut up and dribble. Yes. Like they’re pointing at him that, yo, why did he stop the game?
What’s his problem? Why can’t he just play? Why can’t he be a man? And it’s bro, like, why can’t you guys be human beings? Forget about him being a man. Why don’t you first be humans and then we’ll talk about his gender, right? Yeah. Cuz it’s also, it was in we’re talking about group mentality when Napole the football club in Syria for Italy, when they won, they did something big.
There was a confederate flag that their ultras, their fans were flying in the celebrations. And Napoli and Syria also are notorious for their problems with. Colored athletes, of color. Especially like balli and stuff. That’s just the old example that I remember. But even up to now, they’re flying confederate flags while celebrating a league title or whatever.
And it’s just that’s also a different thing is how do you, like, how does one group attach its feelings and sentiments to another group sometimes? Do you know do you get what I mean?
Rashed: Oh, how they use another group for their purpose.
Waseem: For
Majid: ex, not even purpose, just
Waseem: Em or how they relate to another group
Majid: wanting to buy an Argentina jersey instead of a Brazil jersey.
Why did he attach his sort of like thing to that? Yeah, and there’s only two or three countries that Saudi Arabian attach themselves to. You won’t find any Saudi who in who, who’s an English fan. None of them like the English national team, but they love the German one. So it’s not a European thing either.
I’m sorry.
Waseem: I’m like going. Yeah. And and a big part especially with the world like, the sort of international tournaments, what we associate with the team, russia got kicked out of, allowing to compete. Due to not because the Russian team, not because the Russian soccer team went and started beating, like they, the Russian soccer team didn’t invade Ukraine, right?
The, players didn’t invade Ukraine. Abramovich at Chelsea didn’t invade Ukraine. But everyone at, in terms of association with that group was taken into a big, this is the bucket. Okay. Out And, maybe, and that approach is not consistent with other groups that do similar things.
And that’s all I’m allowed to say about that. And and then even
Rashed: in, because we all know who we’re, who you’re referring to, but we
Waseem: leave it at that. Yeah, and it’s, the, I think the lack of, consistency when it comes to, these positions. England was easy because England was the right, like.
in England, invent invented colonialism. But so it, it was an easy group to be like, meh. And then even growing up in Saudi, even the state America, right? America was an interesting double-sided situation, but still the arrogance of America, right? When it came to, all of the regions, everyone knows about this.
Everyone knows what I feel like with. The, art, the global south there, there is an understanding of how the, real world works, right? A general distrust and an understanding of how the real works, because you live in the results of the real world versus in a sort of a protected bubble.
Let’s say if you, when you, you li you, when you live in North America and everything’s fine. Orange County. Yeah. And, it’s fine for you. It’s not like for you there. It’s fine.
Majid: And the world you’ve grown up in as a third culture kid, as a third culture millennial specifically, has evolved and changed in front of you.
The old rules don’t count anymore. So for example, your stalwart, democratic stalwart, such as the UK have not democratically elected a prime minister in the last four people. So like the things we used to take for granted, or you’ve had in America, you’ve had a. Popular two things. One, that the popular vote winner has lost the election two or three times in the, since 22,000.
Hillary and Bush, I think twice. Twice in the last 20 years. And also you’ve had a sitting president say that the election is rigged. And you’ve had the media establishment completely torn down by all the candidates. Around the world in general, the media establishment, there’s a distrust in general.
So as a third culture millennial, that paranoia and that distrust is magnified, I think, and heightened even more so just because the old rules, if you really look at it, don’t apply or should not, or there should be institutional distrust even with the people we thought we could blindly trust.
Rashed: And then, no.
No. And then I was gonna say that during COVID and social media, just put that on Hyperdrive in terms of distrust, mistrust skepticism, conspiracy theories, all that kind of stuff. With their, all the different, they want to do this to us, they wanna do that to us and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, no it’s, true. Social media has plays a huge part in that, especially when we’re talking about certain generations of people. Definitely. I mean there’s the young generations obviously use that more, use those platforms a lot more. So yeah, the skepticism of media in general of the governmental institutions of.
What people assume that the group, the government group wants to do in Ontario. Rob Ford has been talking more about the 15 minute cities thing. Were they gonna break up pure region? He’s been talking about that. Yeah. Apparently it’s, he that’s apparently that’s one of his goals that he wants to do that.
And people are like, okay. Some people are like, Oh, it’s a part of, it’s a, way to control us, which when you look at the whole model of the 15 minute cities, it, you could make the argument, the conspiracy theory argument of it’s about control because you never have to leave your box, right?
They control which box you wanna live in and which box you’re gonna do things within type of thing
Waseem: yeah.
Majid: You just by the way, you jogged my memory in terms of arrogant groups that are countered, like exactly opposed to each other. Were for a very brief time, but a very entertaining time. You are.
Anti-vaxxers versus vaxxers. Each one had the moral high ground when talking about the other that if I’m against vaccines, you are an idiot for believing in science and if I believe in science, you’re an idiot for not wanting to get vaccine. I just wanted to throw that in.
Waseem: Yeah.
Mr. Right here. And I don’t think that was temporary. I think actually that continues to this day. I don’t, I, I don’t think that was temporary. I think that
Rashed: it’s not as prominent as it used to be, but it’s
video1438211691: still
Waseem: definitely there because in polite society, we’re done with talking about it. And in most society, I think we’re done talking about it.
Like we, nobody necessarily wants to lose anyone else, over this. I think what is it? Like loneliness is the is the biggest problem. And I be like, I can’t stand to lose people over this vaccine issue. But I’m still like, arrogant enough to think that anyone that thought thinks anything different from what I thought is an idiot.
So as everybody’s an idiot. Here’s, my question is, Can this arrogance in this position be attributed to fear or insecurity with your own group identity?
Majid: With the Muslim one, I genuinely do believe, yes. Just as a Muslim, I answer with the Muslim one. I think it’s a lack of faith in your own God. And like you just, you’ve heard some stuff, you really don’t believe it, but you’re putting it on someone else. That kind of idea. I so insecurity, I’ll give that credence, I will give that some weight.
Yes.
Rashed: Rashti. Yeah. If you’re gonna, if we’re going to the standpoint of the religious side of things. Yes, for sure. Because oftentimes when I’ve met people who have this. Moral high ground that they like to walk upon. Tends to be someone who either has reawakened tends to be like a recent convert.
Or they’re, I’ve also met those who come from a pretty conservative family and, they, but the thing is, and they continue with Maintaining the conservatism that they grew up with, religious conservatism that they grew up with. But for me, the first two people that I mentioned it’s, as if they’re, they, the arrogance and the judgment of me being better than everyone else is there because they feel like they found something that all of a sudden was never there.
And, I’m like, but it’s always been there and it’s been there for so many people throughout history. So why do you feel that you’re much so much better than others? Because all of a sudden now you’ve stumbled across it.
Majid: Those first two people, I think they’re caught up in enthusiasm. The third group, the one you mentioned who grew up in conservative and just continued out, I think those people have never had, they are very insecure because they’ve never been intellectually challenged with these ideas, right?
And so when they are faced with that, they don’t know the ideas, they just go on the offensive, right? Like they grew up in one track mind. Exactly what you said. They grew up in that one track, mind and halas. That’s it. They were never allowed, they weren’t allowed at home to question. That’s the first if you question, you’ve sinned immediately you’ve asked a question, my God.
And then they’re friends also. They’re generally in an environment where they’re not in a diverse upbringing. Because of those sort of conservative cultural leanings or just generally environmental leanings. And so they haven’t been, and they’re very insecure about that, or they don’t even know that they’re insecure and it comes off when they are
Waseem: challenged.
I think one of the things also, in terms of fear, I think it’s, fear of not of being rejected by your group. So when you’re, like, if you were to question, right? Cause once you’re in the group, let’s write. Okay. Because I’m, tying this sort of group identity and arrogance. And the arrogance is the antidote to the fear, right?
So for you, you gotta be arrogant so that you can be a part of the group because the more arrogant, the better because your group is better. And then you can sit down and have jokes about everybody on everybody else’s expense. And when you’re in the, like the club, when you’re in the club, it’s great being in the club.
And. Once you find the holes in the, in, in your club or when somebody points out the holes in your club, or the fear of no longer being a part of the club that has brought you such security in terms of group, I’m with all these people. They’re my friends. They, like me for me. And they, the fear of losing that because I begin to think differently or act differently.
Is definitely a, motivator to, to keep the arrogance going, which in turn makes it even harder to build bridges with other groups and to have. They like. And so it’s like a, it’s a cycle. Like it’s a bit of a problem that you’re stuck in and it’s, mostly emotional.
Like it’s there’s, it is the emotions that are entirely driving your, and everybody’s just very, is just emotional. And that’s fine. And and that’s cuz I was thinking like, how can you encourage people to note the slide, to note the tendency. And, to have the sort of the courage or the independence or the I, think the courage, the independence, the, to have the the ability to that, that’s almost a po Like, it’s so hard to say, no I’m not going to, I’m not like, to stand up in the group, against the group You literally gotta start a new group in order, like of people that stand up against the group.
And then you gotta, then you, got the whole thing going on, which is the Muslim atheist thing, right? It’s so hard to stand up in the group. And so now you’re forced to make a new group and now you have a new group and you fall into the same trap, let’s say. That, and I isn’t, and I feel is the goal.
Is the goal the sort of the utopian in the sense that. We have all the bridges built that we can walk across and sit and, be with each other and disagree. That’s, it’s not that we all have to agree. It’s not a, it’s not a one agenda, but is the goal of life to build bridges or is it to take ’em down?
Rashed: It’s when you talk about When there’s like interfaith groups, for example. And the whole purpose is to build bridges between different religious groups to find common common ground in terms of morals and ethics and, belief in God. And, I think it’s cool like it, and even if you can discuss the different concepts of God in different religious groups I would that, would be one, one good way to get more understanding in the world.
More interfaith conferences and groups and, gatherings, that kind of
Waseem: stuff.
Majid: Is why I told you the old rules, what we learned as children, they’re not being followed, they’re not being practiced. We’ve been taught the human, naturally the human wants to connect and build bridges, but instead we’re going across the world with a scorched earth policy.
Of this arrogance of I’m better than you. And my picture, my selfie is the most important thing and my labeling of me, my dance, my trend, yeah, it’s very like the old rules have been thrown out for some reason and we’re just doing the way, what you wanna do, it. No one really cares anymore that yo, we need to build bridges and we need to connect and we need to grow together as a society.
As almost I would argue around the world no, I just need to survive by myself and go about my business and get my money. That’s it.
Rashed: Yeah. Promoting the individual self, identity and, what me as an I, as an individual would be to the world as a brand.
But the, cause everyone becomes a brand now, ev, every person becomes a brand. But the
Majid: problem is the, it, the cycle starts to you to get. To get strength as an individual is zero. In this world, you need to get it by being part of a group. And so now if you don’t fit in anywhere, you have to start your own group.
And now, when you start your own group, it’s because I’m better than you are, I think different than you. And I don’t like the way you do it. And now I’m on the high horse, where yesterday I was on the low horse, I’m now on the high horse.
Rashed: Yeah, you’re on a pony yesterday, now you’re on a freaking stallion winning,
Waseem: the
Majid: Arabian Stallion
Waseem: yeah. The misfits, the cycle continues. I think I think this is an, I think this was an very interesting conversation and I think we, explored the like some of the challenges, like I, I think we, did not just easily just dismiss. The idea of, ar of, arrogance or of groups that engage in it.
I think there are human pieces that lead to that happening, and it’s a, it is a human problem and I like in order to be positive or constructive I would say I I would tell, I would encourage myself first to re. To note the slide, to note that I can go down the slide to note that you can go down the slide.
It’s very easy to go down the slide. It’s very appealing to go down the slide. And where you can do that and where you already do that in the the varieties of group identities that you may hold and understand where that comes from and hopefully think about maybe thi instead of thinking about how many groups do I take down, And how many groups am I better at?
How many groups have I built bridges with? How many groups have I engaged with? How many groups have I tried to, listen to to understand how many groups have I humanized? How many others have I humanized? I think that would be, something I feel. And I might be wrong, but I feel might be a good a good place to stop for today.
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Majid: One of the best ways to build bridges is by sharing guys
Waseem: Share,
Rashed: Sharing is
Waseem: caring. Jerry is caring. Thanks for joining. Subscribe, share, and have a, great day. Peace. Peace everybody. Bye.