In this eye-opening episode of Third Culture Convos, Waseem, MJ, and Rashed delve into the fascinating transition of global power dynamics, as the United States faces a potential decline and countries like Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa rise to prominence. As third culture kids, our hosts offer unique insights into how these shifts impact identity, belonging, and the interconnected world we live in. Tune in to hear their thought-provoking discussion and explore the growing influence of the Global South through the lens of the third-culture experience.
Episode Transcript:
Waseem: [00:00:00] Welcome to Third Culture Convos, where we navigate the complexities of growing up between cultures, traditions, and identities. I’m Wasim joined by my co-host, Majid and Rash. Today we’re diving into a particularly intriguing topic, the shifting global power dynamics and how they affect third culture.
Kids like us. Our episode will explore the potential decline of the United States as a world power and the emergence of countries like Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. These nations, collectively known as the bricks countries are introducing a new shared trade currency that could reshape the global economic landscape.
As third culture kids, we’re no strangers to the convergence of societies and the impact of global power shifts on our lives. In this episode, we’ll discuss how these changes might influence our sense of identity belonging and the interconnected world we live in. We’ll also consider the historical events and patterns that have led to these shifts and how technology and social media play a role in [00:01:00] shaping our perspectives.
So let’s kick off our conversation with our first. How do these shifting global power dynamics impact the identity and sense of belonging for third culture kids in the US and in the global south? Take it away boys. Hi guys.
Rashed: Okay, so my very first thought about this is that for a third culture individual in living in the US or global south, well, I guess we can see the western world in general.
It might be a sense of finally we have some kind of power that’s outside of the United States that can actually start influencing the world. I don’t know if it’s necessarily a positive way, but the point is, is that a lot of these countries we’re talking about are countries that are people. A lot of people we, we discuss and talked about and relate to come from these types of countries, so [00:02:00] we.
Always been living in like in a middle, in like this gray area for a lot of our lives. But now it’s like, oh look, you know, a country for example, like South Africa are part of the bricks nations. A lot of people from third culture identities probably relate to South Africans more than they would to a general American from California, from or county, let’s just say because of possible cultural.
Not, not necessarily cultural ties, but similarities, let’s just say. So you could say that after so many years of just American homogeny in terms of power over the world, because as some people would say, Hey, you know what? Now we have something else, some other force to look at that could represent some of our interests, I guess you could say.
But there’s still a dangerous element to this whole process that’s going on right now, economically, especially, [00:03:00] but MJ go,
MJ: well, I’ll just say I agree with most of what you’re saying and what I could keep up with. I’m kind of slow. But also it, I feel it almost confuses an already confused person.
This gray area person you’re talking. This global shift or these shifting dynamics just makes it that much more confusing almost for that person because one, it almost automatically opens you up to the worst possible comment in the world, which is go back to where you came from. Now you have a reason to go back, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, it genuinely almost adds ammo to the opposite side because these headline. They sound really good and they are kind of cool, but it doesn’t necessarily trickle down. So like the, that macroeconomic policy of a new currency just might be an accounting [00:04:00] unit and it might not have an economic factor to the everyday farmer or truck driver or whatever.
So a lot of these it’s, it just confuses, that’s all I can say. It confuses an already confused gray area person.
Waseem: I think I shared that. Sorry, sorry. I think I shared, I think I shared that, that like feeling in terms of confusion, because I’m not sure how I should feel because in the last, let’s say, so in the last like 50, 60 years, I haven’t been around, but in the time that I have been around while the US has been the, the the sort of the big, the big player like the, you know, big boy on the field I feel like okay, there have been, there have been pros and cons in terms of like my cultural identity.
Like it’s, it’s affected me positively and there have been negative consequences to the US playing, playing [00:05:00] playing the world police. Right? And so I, in the same way that my feelings towards the, the US being the big boy, Can be mixed. Like, and, and maybe this is an unpopular opinion to actually give credit, like, to give positive credit to the US hegemony of the global authority over the last like 50 years.
That might not be a popular opinion, but there’s definitely Positives, like you, I’m sure if you ask anybody from the US there’s only positives. And if you ask anybody from from abroad, from the global south, let’s say there’s only negatives. But I think, you know, it’s a, I feel like there’s a mix.
And so when there’s a shifting power, I’m like, okay, what does it mean if, if China. Like China as the sort of the, let’s say the head of this group, let’s call this like the bricks group because, you know, the, the yuan currency, the, the one currency is gonna be in [00:06:00] like a big player in this how like, I, I get, you know, there will be positives and negatives from China being the new big boy, all right.
Or from, from bricks being the new big boy on the, in the, in the world. And it’s like anticipating those, that’s the, the like, You know, you can look at the negative sides and be like, oh man, we’re definitely not gonna have any more, as many choices that we used to, if I feel that way. But then you look at the positive side and you think, well, it’s always nice when the big bully gets kind of taken down these
MJ: choices thing.
Can I just say, I’ve been thinking about this. My phone that I use here in Pakistan is fully made in China. Phone, which Americans have never heard of this company. So I don’t know about the choices thing like this phone has is the American equivalent to this. You’d have to pay another $300. I got this because it’s the [00:07:00] Chinese version and all of that.
It’s $300 less, but it’s got all the advanced features on it, whatever I need. And so I don’t know cuz the Americans, they banned these Chinese phones because of that. They can’t match the. And they have the phone carrier system only at t and Telus or Fido or whatever, Canada, America. You can only go through those networks.
So this, this is one of the things, I don’t know, like sure we’ve been trained to automatically assume less choice in these places, but from what they’re outputting, it’s actually more choice. Does that make sense?
Rashed: Well, the thing is, is that it. There, there’s a reason why there is so many Chinese products on the market because everyone goes to, they, they have their factories and stuff set up in various Asian countries because it’s cheaper to do it than in the United States, but See the thing for me that when we go to this, like in terms of like the choices [00:08:00] thing, right?
So then, okay, let’s just hypotheticals here. Let’s just say hypotheticals, the bricks, they knocked down the big bully who’s the United States. And a whole bunch of people celebrate because it’s like, oh look, the bully on the schoolyard has finally been defeated and all that kind of stuff. And now China’s the biggest player, hypothetically speaking.
There’s a lot of shit that happens in China that we don’t necessarily agree with, that we don’t like, for example, there’s, there’s the whole social media rating thing that that’s a real, that’s a reality in parts of China at least. Where you’re base, you’re self worth as like getting financial services and all that kind of stuff, or going to rent a house or buying something or whatever it is.
It’s based your social. Your social, I know, but it’s based on your social media credit, so it’s just. Like that episode in in dark mirrors. So I mean those, when we talked about cons, that’s definitely a con because the question for me comes down to let’s, so let’s just say China becomes the biggest player out of [00:09:00] this other side of things.
It’s bricks group of nations, right? Do, does their influence in terms of, so the United States now, the biggest influence is obviously is pop culture, sports like entertainment. But also political and and social type of influences around the world has spread around the United States. Is it safe to assume that, you know, this would happen with Chinese influence as well?
Like, I mean, and that’s, I think that’s what a lot of people fear when they look at the type of abuses that China’s accused of, allegedly. And I think also just, and freedoms that are taken away from you because of the political climate. Well, look, I
Waseem: mean, but in terms of abuses, there’s no, nobody’s free, right?
Like, like mm-hmm. You know, nobody’s walking around with the white, like, you know, with a white with a blank blank
MJ: grave.
Waseem: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, so no, nobody’s free in terms of abuses. And we all swallow the abuses you know, [00:10:00] just based on what’s coming in. Like, I like that, that, I think that’s a.
Question. But I think like, sort of where does identity come into play? Let’s say you’re like a third culture kid, that’s a mix of Chinese, right? So you’re like, you’re partly Chinese and you’re partly I mean look at, let’s call it Western for you. This is a total, like, this is like even within your own identity, this is like a switch of power from like one side to the other.
I think it’s a win-win for you, right? Like cuz because you can play in both worlds and. Like, I don’t know. Is it a win-win? Like, Hmm. That it gets so choppy
MJ: because it’s not necessarily, if, for example, you ran from this regime, your father, your mother ran from this regime, that half and half. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
One of them ran from the regime. He wouldn’t want to see he or she, or they would not want to see that regime prosper in any sense of the word. Right. Like them [00:11:00] prospering means.
Waseem: Oppression. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
MJ: Fight like their actions are kind of allowed or Okay. Because the, it justifies me,
Waseem: hence the confusing this of this for the third, for the third culture.
Like, hence like, I don’t know how I’m supposed to feel about this. Right. Like, well,
Rashed: I mean, we, we can, we can throw it to, oh, so when we talk about the different countries involved in this, obviously there’s the big players, the the bricks acronym, but then there’s other countries in the back. That are considering getting involved, one of which, Saudi Arabia, Iran as well.
Yeah, I mean Pakistan wants to get involved in this. Like there’s list develop, there’s lists. A huge list a lot. But then here’s, so then, so if you, for ex, so cmo, so you know, Saudi background, whatever I mean, Saudi Arabia already has economic influence around the Middle East, generally speaking, and it’s it, and it’s spread into eight parts of Asia and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, yeah. And if they [00:12:00] get involved with this whole new trade system, I mean, I mean, a lot of Saudis would, would be like, I mean, well, this is great now, now we don’t have to worry about any type of relations with the United States. Well,
Waseem: my, I mean, my thoughts, my thoughts about this for Saudi and is that, I mean, this totally makes sense for.
Like mm-hmm. It’s a, it’s the, I mean, okay, let’s look at this semantics. Like literally, like last year we were pariah state, right? Like, like, we’re gonna treat that pariah state the way it is. I even looked up what pariah meant, just to like, be sure, like, what were they saying? And it’s a totally negative word, like there’s no, there’s no positive spin on it.
But then after, and then when, when, when Russia invaded, And, and then you needed the Saudis and the states needed the Saudis, like I, I, I was like this is rich. Like, a part of me was like, this is rich. So you’re, you, you call, you call your friend, your friend in, in like, you know, like your long standing [00:13:00] ally in the region, a pariah state.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then when you need them, you’re like, yo, keep it, keep it, keep it flowing. And then they’re like, yo remember what you just said about
MJ: like Pakistan? Mm-hmm. Pakistan has entered the chat because this is very much the most, the number one ally to the war on terror was Pakistan.
The number one bodies that were killed were soldiers. Wives was Pakistani. But yet you called throughout that entire, as we were your number one ally, we were also the terrorist nation, the access of evil kind of people. Yeah. So now like you’re both asking us for our help, but also slapping us. And this is the one thing that Iran can has constantly mentioned and.
If you believe some reports there was a American hand in him being removed from power because he wanted, there’s a very famous clip of him with that there’s an H B O journalist and he asks, will you let America put [00:14:00] bases in Pakistan? And he famously answers, absolutely not. And apparently those two words, didn.
If he had just a little bit diplomatic and so like, yeah, we’ll see, maybe we’ll sell our country for some money. He would’ve been okay. But because he wanted an independent foreign policy against the American sort of view that we’ve done this for four thir 20 years in Afghanistan and we didn’t get anything out of this.
You didn’t get anything out of it. They didn’t lose, lose lose situation like we wanna do our own thing. And he was removed. So like, this is why I’m saying as an American Pakistan, If any one of these countries makes a moves, it’s very confusing. It’s always very confusing.
Rashed: Okay. You know what makes makes us even more confusing.
Now I’m gonna go, and this is it, it’s related to like, it, the identity question, but also just the, the question of of reality of situations on the ground. So we mentioned Saudi Arabia, Iran, two big players in the Middle [00:15:00] East Turkey. Also a big player in the Middle East. The other big player in the Middle East obviously is.
And all these countries are discussing, possibly being involved in this bricks thing. Yeah. And perennial enemies, basically everyone against Israel. But if now they’re all in bed together and they see an economic benefit to doing this. So my question now comes to the point of like, well, could this be a catalyst for like potential long-term peace in the Middle East?
Let’s say for example, like, Like, could they, could they for example, put some kind of stipulations on Israel and say, listen, fine, but you know, you gotta fix your mess here. Well, look,
Waseem: I think the, no one’s gonna tell anyone to fix anyone’s mess. I think the big, the big, the thing that ties all these countries together, I think is that they have a very strong opinion on internal affairs or internal.
And, [00:16:00] and like we in general, the the, like, where is the burn that all the countries feel is that the US is, is way too involved in the internal affairs of other countries? Whether they call it freedom in the name of freedom, in the name of democracy, in the name of women, in the same of whatever it is that they want to, they want to, to, to use as the, as the as the virtue virtuous reason to be involved in another country’s internal affairs.
I think what all these other countries have united over is the fact that we don’t want the US to be dictating. The US or the World Bank or anybody to be dictating how we handle the internal affairs of our state. And so you, you’re kind of quiet, like, please be quiet about that. So when Canada comes and is like you comments about, you know, Saudi’s, human rights abuses and stuff, Saudi’s like, oh.
Okay. Really? You we [00:17:00] like mm-hmm. We don’t. All right, well, how about you clean your own house up before you come knocking on our house? So I think that’s what connects ’em also. I don’t think they’ll be like, Israel, clean up the act. I don’t, but here’s
Rashed: the thing. But, but here’s the thing. But,
Waseem: but, but where, when you talked about a, the process for peace, I think that’s kind of already happened because when China brokered the the reopening of relations between Iran and Saudi as brokered by China, that’s a mm-hmm.
Big. Big move. Like that’s, that was a big, like a big move with against the US in the sense that, well, like you guys have had 50 to 60 years to try to work out, work out peace. I’ll put that in, in bunny years. You tried to work out peace in the Middle East, but you’ve also benefited from the conflict in the Middle East.
And so like there’s kind of a, a bit of an issue with that. And then China comes in reestablishes relations between Saudi and Iran. Like, you know, shared trade currencies [00:18:00] possible future cryp shared crypto cryptocurrencies or digital currencies between them. Like now we’re, we’re talking like.
Like we are Israel involved also with trade, sort of exporting all its technology and all of its
MJ: like the new Silk Road as well. Like tangible, you’re talking digital.
Waseem: Yeah. Yeah. And then there’s also the tangible and then there’s the new Silk Road and like connecting like Yeah. Sort of like, yeah. These are, yeah.
You see,
Rashed: so think for me is, so when we talk about like what the, the first part of it when we talk about internal affairs are internal affairs and, and people don’t want the United States being involved like they used to be. Again, so let’s just hypotheticals again. So we’re, if, let’s just say this bricks thing happens and what it, and it severely affects the American dollar and it affects the American dollar and it, I mean, people are prob, you know, people are, are, you know, potentially projecting that the American dollar can collapse in 2003 or 2004 at some point related to this type of thing.
Here’s the thing though, the problem with this is that, so [00:19:00] if the American dollar, so if all this trade is happening with these other currencies, v1, for example, let’s just, I mean, let’s just assume that’s gonna be. For one, the United States, they can’t call back loans like they used to because their money in, in essence, for a lot, a lot of their currencies propped up by loans being paid back to them.
So they get a whole bunch of interest back. But what that also means is that their economy is healthy to a certain extent, which also means related to Israel, et cetera, that they can continue to fund the Israeli military, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, give ’em all these weapons and all that kind of stuff.
Now, if the American influence. Is diminished because they can’t do that anymore financially. It almost like forces Israel in a sense to be like, shit, like our military won’t be what it used to be because it’s not gonna be a strong, financially speaking, we can’t do what we used to do. So then in terms of like the influence, I don’t see someone like China going, well, here’s the, here’s the replacement money.
In terms of funding. Right. So, so, so in a, [00:20:00] in terms of funding. So in a sense, I feel like even if nobody tells them directly, like whichever nation it is in, in that region, because of the shift of, of the money that would ba, ba back any type of initiative or what, whatever country, it almost feels like it, I say catalyst in a sense of like more like an identity check and like a paradigm shift in terms of like how they run their.
MJ: China will get you the money if they’re gonna reap, if it’s an investment, if they view it as an a worthy investment, they’ll find whatever money they need. Especially for American assets. If they were depressed American assets, they’ll buy all of ’em within a day. I can promise you that. And they’ll probably use this digital currency to back their own bullshit.
Yeah, yeah. Like, I’m not even joking. That’s cause the one difference between China, US is that China puts their hands in and they own all of the ports and all the buildings and all the roads, [00:21:00] but they still build the ports, the buildings, the roads. America kind of came in, demolished everything in every country and
Waseem: just.
Rashed: But China’s, China’s not the only one that does this, right? Because Germany does that too. Germany owns, quote unquote a whole bunch of Europe cuz that’s what they’ve done. They’ve gone into certain European countries that needed the help. Greece’s one under austerity. They’re freaking ruined. Germany’s gone in and, and like, not only the German government, but German companies have gone in and said, okay, we’ll build, we’ll buy X, Y, Z airports.
We’re gonna rebuild the airports. Fraport is gonna run these airport. Yeah, we’re gonna bring in our people, but it’s a loan, so you gotta pay us back. So in essence, Germany owns a shitload of Greece, but it’s not the only country does that. But China took that model and has gone into African countries.
That’s the
MJ: thing. They went after developing economies specifically. They picked a very specific niche that no one wants, that untouchables, the ones no one wants to give [00:22:00] loans to. We’re gonna. In fact we’re gonna give ’em and we’re gonna own ’em. Watch. And that’s what they’re doing. Right? But they still give you something tangible.
Again, America’s track record in the last 20 years. This isn’t, I’m as an American, I’m saying very like it’s in front of us. Today we talk about Afghanistan, who was running it for 20 years. Like we’re now in post, this isn’t Taliban 2.0, this is post American 1.0. Does that make sense? Yeah. This is the like post American government.
You guys left it and you did nothing in 20 years. Clearly. Iraq, same thing. Syria, same thing. Libya, wherever you have been involved, and we know this, this isn’t some conspiracy with your ambassadors and your diplomats and your WMDs and your grand speeches have shown us this. So now where’s the trust factor On an individual level?
Trust is lost like this. Why would they work? They,
Rashed: they, they, they learned from the best previous to them, and it starts with a b.[00:23:00]
Yeah, yeah. Yes. Sorry. Gb, whatever, you know what I mean? Short form Britain. Well, whatever. You know what I mean?
MJ: Well, the other flip side to all of this is the American reaction to what’s happening in the world as an American, I’m saying is very third world. The reaction has been not to join together and unify, and let’s get this done like the first world does .
It’s been to divide and we’re each doggy dog, which is a very hallmark of the third world. And so like I have downgraded the United States to, like I tell people, it is the second world. It’s got first world infrastructure, but a third world mentality. I’m sorry to say this, but if you’re talking really brutally first world infrastructure, third world mentality,
Waseem: second.
Rashed: Well, I would, I would, I would describe what’s happening in the United States right now as devolution of the American political. They’re just, yeah, they’re, I [00:24:00] mean, unrelated topic, but like they’re, they’re, I’m not going to go into anything else really, but just like things, social issues, let’s just say for example, that are happening in the United States right now are being, and like I’m talking specifically like in different state senates and all that kind of stuff, they’re being The reaction to it is like, we don’t like what you’re saying.
Get the hell out. And they kicked them out and it’s like, oh shit, we gotta reinstate them now. Oh fuck. Like, it’s like there, there’s no, there’s no real
Waseem: process. Well I think this is, this is part of, this is not on the side because it’s part of like when we talk about how identifying sort of historical events and patterns that have led, that led to the decline of the US as a world power and how this resonates with third culture kids.
What we’re talking about is like, I mean, there’s a bunch of things I. Both from sort of the currencies, but also the, the divisions within the political, like the, the active divisions, right? Like Yeah, the landscape, right? Like, so it’s not just like decoupling from the, [00:25:00] from the gold reserve. And so then having an, I mean, I, I mean, you know, like an artificially inflated currency because it’s running as the world currency.
And then, so once it’s no longer the world currency and the top dog, then you get some reality and a bunch of people on peg and then you, like, you get a whole other situation. And so I and I, so I think that. I mean even, I mean even currently Impala, like these guys don’t understand, right? Like when you keep printing money, right?
Like in the, in, in the States. And that’s like the game plan, mm-hmm. And dividing your population. I mean, this is what I, I think this is crazy that like, it feels like in the United States people like, you know, they just had Easter, right? So everybody got together to have dinner . And it’s increasingly, as the years have gone on, the amount of topics that you can speak about at the dinner table with your family has decreased tremendously.
You can only talk about the weather, but be careful you don’t spill into climate. You can only [00:26:00] tell like Right, right. You can o like, so there’s nothing left and, and because the response to, to even a disagree. Like, okay, I disagree with my uncle over X, Y, Z leads to the dissolution of the family. Like, we’re not gonna be able to talk anymore.
We’re not even gonna be able to disagree anymore. Like this is an act of violence that you disagree with.
Rashed: What say, but at? At, but at what point was it really like, at what point was it a reality where you could actually discuss a bunch of topics at the dinner table and not fall into this like, DeVol, the, the disillusion maintain like destruction of like the family unit of being able to discuss things with each other.
I mean, I would say that there’s only been two time periods in recent history going back to the nineties until now, where you could have honest discussions amongst family because of political climate was very different, was under the Clinton administration and Barack Obama’s in terms of like openness of discussing.
Obama’s
MJ: Obama start, you’ll start [00:27:00] with the black, white, racist thing that like immediately that was a big that’s like the one that broke it. Clinton. Yeah, I agree. But if you do watch sort of those sixties with Malcolm X on tv, the black and white people are smoking cigarettes. There is a healthy one side and another side, and you’re respectful.
Debate, disagree. Debate. Debate. McKinley. How the debate guys, William McKinley and Bill something. There’s best of Enemies. There’s a documentary about those guys. And they had a series, they were both from different political thingies, and they ends and they disagreed, but they respectfully disagreed.
They weren’t like fighting about it.
Rashed: I wanna, I wanna tell you, like just it slowly related. You know, related to this, I think there’s one person who’s severely underrated in that whole discussion of, of human rights and like the civil rights movement in the United States. I, [00:28:00] I just wanna suggest to everybody, if you can go on YouTube and just find videos and interviews with James Baldwin.
Cuz that guy freaking amazing when he speaks like, and, and I, and, and read his books like he. Like, I feel like he just, he was too much under the radar in relation to all of these discussions from the sixties, like civil rights movement, stuff like that.
MJ: And he was so disillusioned by the American
Waseem: reaction to racism that he left.
Rashed: He had to, he had, he had to go, he went to Paris. Like he lived his life in like between, he’s like, I’m done with this shit. So again, we talk about it shifting dynamics and identity for him. For example an African American who was ACT, who actually openly gay as well, like he had two. Against him in the, in the in American politics that, oh, the American society at the time, and there’s all this stuff happening and all the shifting dynamics and, and with the civil rights movement and, and then, and he’s African American and he’s trying to fight for African American rights, but there’s also the whole [00:29:00] issue of like him, his identity as, as well.
I’m also, I’m, I’m, I’m a black gay male as well. At the same time, how fully accepted am I in my own community that I’m fighting? And he’s like, I’m done. I’m outta here.
MJ: War cause of this, this psychological disillusionment. He’s like, he would hop and write while in France he was talking about their war that they’re doing with Algeria and that they’ve got a colonist hand.
Like I can still see this. And so just in terms of identity, it wasn’t about skin color at that point, it was much more psychological profile. Yeah. But I get the oppressed versus oppressor sort of thing. That’s.
Rashed: And a funny thing too, at that point, like you’d, you in the United States at that time, you’d be witnessing the rise of the American influence on the world in terms of politics and economics and culture.
Like, not culture exactly yet, but like, but like it’s, it’s
Waseem: starting to happen. Like you were
MJ: allowed to do this when the eighties happened. Reagan came in. He re, he [00:30:00] repealed this law that forced news networks to show both sides even. That initially you had to show the left and the right for equal amount of time.
Five minute, five minutes. When Reagan repealed this, you then had the rise of F O X specifically,
Rashed: but all of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean media that news, media especially became Yeah,
Waseem: and that, I mean that’s, that’s a good point, right? Like, so like, and that those are some of the changes that led to the sort of polar, like the extreme polarization of, of, of us society.
Mm-hmm. Which does. Like, you know, a strength, it seems like a strength of a, of a society is on the, let’s say that like, it seems like it, I, I may be wrong, but on the diversity of opinions that it can hold at the same time. Right? Like, like how far can you go in terms of and, and hold them. Right. And so without tech fear or [00:31:00] without like, Removing them from your way, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, or, or, or what’s the de nationalizing them? Right? Or like of similar words along, along those lines, like, how much can you hold within the fabric of your society? But, but I’m actually testing that question on the, the, the bricks countries, right? And on China. Yeah. And like, I mean, really how much diversity of opinion can they hold?
Right? Like what does it look like in at a Chinese dinner table? Like, are you like, like it doesn’t seem from the outside now from the outside. So I’m not on the inside. And I think a big part of third culture understanding is knowing. What’s happening on the inside you in a big, in a lot of ways, you gotta know it’s in it.
Like I heard this one, one thing once that, that there are like two types of countries in the world, like countries that live under tyranny and countries that live under the illusion of freedom. And, and, and so there’s no, there’s no idea [00:32:00] like that, that this is a nice, like, little, little way, but when you know that you live under tyranny, even if you all lie, you all know you’re lying, right?
Like, you, you all know like what we’re gonna talk about, you know? And there’s a, there’s like, especially with the global south, like we know. What’s up? And that’s why when you go to, I feel like when you go to Canada, when you go to the states and you tell them the like the, like if, and you tell them the truth, the things that we already know in the global south, that it’s a hard pill to swallow.
Mm-hmm. It’s difficult to accept the fact that maybe your government is, is like, has been funding the C B C to a level that makes them impossible to be independent and that they’re a mouthpiece of the government a propaganda piece of the government even. I
MJ: found this, the N P R and B bbc, did you guys follow this thing that Twitter?
Waseem: Yeah. He’s labeled like Musk government sponsored, government sponsored media. Which is [00:33:00] basically propaganda, right? Like, I mean, government sponsored,
MJ: you can’t call us this. We take public funds, but we take them to grants. That doesn’t mean we’re state funded. And although it totally, it’s like, yo, you guys get your money from them and you run, that’s fine.
I don’t know. Yeah. The fact that you think this is so like insulting to be called state sponsored or government sponsored or whatever Yes. Is telling,
Waseem: it’s telling
MJ: because you use that label very quickly for anyone. You’re very quickly state sponsored Iranian tv, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Waseem: R ut Remember, remember
MJ: at
Waseem: jk?
Remember Jaina?
MJ: Remember like Russian?
Waseem: Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, that was all State sponsored. That was a problem. But no, no, no, no.
All of these things kind of like couple on top of each other. And.
MJ: The Fox, the other, sorry, was in the lawsuit with Fox that is openly showing that the producers are feeding them garbage and the anchors are spilling [00:34:00] garbage. Mm-hmm. The Fox producers, did you guys hear about her? She like, she was told that to lie during the congressional hearings and she’s come out and whistle blown about that and now that.
He’s telling them that yo, like everything they say is just pure bs.
Rashed: It’s pure. Well, it’s not only that, there’s also the actual anchor. There’s, there’s leaked videos or leaked audio of, of the anchors themselves saying This is bullshit. Well,
Waseem: and it shocks me that people think, That they didn’t know this.
Like, that’s what shocks me. Like, like when you’re so far in the bubble, like, and that’s, this is a third call to perspective. That’s why I’m like so shocked by it. Right? Like, like, because I’m not in there, like, I’m not like, oh my, because that’s, that is a bitter pill to swallow because it means it’s your whole worldview was sponsored, right?
Like, like everything is is entirely
Rashed: a lie. Sponsored. Yeah. Yeah’s, you know what I’ll say, you know what I’ll say, I’ll, I’ll give, I’ll give the anchors credit. And say that a lot and, and in the sense of, and, and they’re still doing their thing. They’re playing their characters so fucking [00:35:00] well,
MJ: and that’s my problem as an American, when you start playing characters, when you take money to play a character and you’re passing off information, this is the hallmark of the third world.
This is what happens in Pakistan. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not news. Are sponsored from their own patronage, from rich businessmen. Mm-hmm. They get to put puff pieces and that’s it. And that’s literally what has happened. Mm-hmm. So, like, by the way, if I remark on America for the viewers more than anyone else listeners, if I remark about America, it’s because I have a direct one-to-one comparison between Pakistan, a genuine third world country where people said residents within years talk about it as a third world and America, which considers itself the first world and is in pure, pure, pure.
Rashed: Well, now you wanna talk about, we go back to the whole identity thing and Yeah, that’s a part of it. The fact that so much of the American population would not want to accept the fact that they’re no longer necessarily the, the big boys. They’re not the powerhouse anymore. And they [00:36:00] can’t come to terms with, with the fact that their influence is, is not what it used to be.
The funny thing is, is that a lot of the American population actually believes that so much of the world gives a shit about their pol politics, for example. Like they think that people care when, when there’s, there’s a US election going on. I’m like, I’m sorry if you go, if you go to Asia, generally speaking to Asian countries, they don’t give a damn rat’s ass.
Like I was in Greece during one of the US president of elections. I forgot what was going on because no one was talking about it. Cause no one care. Nobody cares. It’s big news here, obviously in Canada. Yes. You, you’re gonna get some news in Mexico obviously cuz it’s so, cuz of proximity we’re talking about here.
But you start leaving like it’s little bubble and people are like us who like great, I like, I like their music. Ah, I watch n b A basketball. Like, you know, like, okay, I, I just
Waseem: had like, had a thought of like a crazy. I mean, let’s say now, like, let’s counter this, right? Let’s counter this. Mm-hmm. So, so the [00:37:00] bricks comes together and they put the currencies together, and then the US is like, oh man, what do we got?
Moves now. Okay. Canada, Mexico. Mm-hmm. Great Britain, Japan. Let’s
Rashed: go Australia Unified. Don’t forget
Waseem: about Australia. Australia Unified currency. Let’s go. Come on. Like we, like we, we’ll need another currency against this currency and let’s. You know, be honest about the US dollar and let’s move on to a, a, a new shared currency that is a countering.
Rashed: Before we go into this, before we go into this, I just have a quick question because there’s something I’m, I’m a bit unclear of when it comes to the brick stain. Are they talking about actually starting a new currency or are they gonna discuss one of the currencies that is best to be used going forward?
Cause I know that, like, what is it? Brazil and, and China have agreed to use the want for now for trade. Is it what, or is it South Africa and China? Yeah. To the countries that said, we’re, we’re gonna do this for now. But like, how do you even start a new currency? That’s a thing for me. I don’t know. [00:38:00] We’ve seen it.
I never did. I, I never did economics. Yeah, the
Waseem: euro, just like the euro.
Rashed: You just, you, the thing is, but here’s the thing
Waseem: we’re talking about. And it’s easier now. You don’t have to print them. Like, it’s just like, it’s digital. Like it’s, it’s probably easier to start a currency now than it did before. Right?
So
Rashed: we’re not talking about actual notes, we’re talking about digitized units, essentially. It’s
Waseem: more of an
MJ: accounting term.
Waseem: It really is. Yeah. Most trade happens this way, right? Like I like you don’t take out US dollars to go buy goods in China. Like, no, no.
Rashed: So what I’m saying is like the proxy involved is what?
Like now at some point you get to a point where it’s like, we’re gonna use this and it’s called blah, blah,
Waseem: blah, whatever. Essential authority. Essential authority issue. And there’s a price for that currency. Mm-hmm. So there’ll be like you know, if you, so, because like let’s say I have a bunch of US dollars or Canadian dollars, there’ll be an exchange rate for that currency.
And if I want to purchase products from China, I have to purchase this currency. And, and so is the [00:39:00] central body that issues the currency. They can a, they can back it to something like, they can back it to a, to a reserve. They can back it to another currency. They can back it to, or gold. Gold or, or min and something like that.
Mm-hmm. And then you to get purchase, give its value. Yeah. And so then you purchase that currency and then you get that currency, and then they get the other currency, and then it’s, it balances. Like, they’ll have a balance of currencies cuz then they’ll hold certain other currencies. But like, then it, you know, Then it’s banking
Rashed: like, because then the question comes down to, and then the question comes down to, and this is something that was tried, for example, in the Gulf region about using a unified currency in the Gulf.
And no one can agree on it. Saudi wanted the real, and Emirates are like, screw you people. Why do you have to use the ral? And then so like, and then there’s like, So you would, so my, my whole point to hold this thi this entire thing is that at least there’s some kind of shared identity, there’s a shared history, there’s a shared language, a shared culture amongst those, to a certain extent amongst those countries.
And they still, still couldn’t [00:40:00] agree cuz of egos and all that kind of stuff. So how are you gonna get to the point where you’re gonna be able to get Brazil and China and Russia and India and South Africa to agree, say, fine, we’ll do this currency. Eagle is gonna come in at some point. The Chinese are probably gonna say, our currency is the best.
We’re gonna use ours. Forget, forget. We’ll use it now temporarily. We’ll continue to use it in the future with their plan in mind, without telling anybody that and be like, no, we’re not doing it. You know what I mean? Like, so I’m just thinking of like the issues
Waseem: possibly, but by having a, a, a, like it’s not just the, the Dewan, it’s the, it’s having another currency, right?
Like, so even though Dewan is the settlement currency mm-hmm. Having a, like a made up, a new one that’s made up between them kind of, I think removes like, it’s not saying using the Saudi real in the Arab region. As the main currency. And so everybody else, because then like, then everybody, it strengthens the Saudi real in the sense that if I wanna trade, I have to buy Saudi rials.
And [00:41:00] that increases the prices of Saudi rials. And like, so there’s more people trying to buy Saudi reals, right? Mm-hmm. Now, but with, with, by having a, a separate currency, It may cause create a, a situation where like, cuz it’s not necessarily due end, but also a rising tide raises all ships.
And so they like, it’s not an ego thing, it’s, we, we, like, we will save stupid amounts of money by like, and it’s not, I don’t even think it’s just anti-US policy. It’s just we’re gonna save a whole like bunch. It’s gonna make, it’s so much easier to. Yeah, to trade with each other. We already do trade with each other.
And why are we buying and like strengthening or lifting up the US dollar in order to buy from each other And mm-hmm. The US isn’t really helping us out with that. And what they’re doing is actually devaluing their own currency by printing, printing, printing. And it’s a very natural, like, you guys ever see this video?
You guys, everybody at home, you wanna learn more about this? [00:42:00] There’s a. May I put it a link in this thing? Ray Dalio has a video a book and a video called Changing World Orders and the video’s on YouTube, and it’s like a, it’s an animated video that explains the whole book very well, and it’s a real fa like it’s, it’s 45 minutes long, but it goes by really quickly and it totally explains the, like in a very simplified form, the general principles around the rise and fall of.
World of global powers. And what makes, like by definition the global power is the, is the top currency, like the cur the reserve currency of the world. And that has changed over time and there’s been very similar things that have led to the rise and fall. And then any, any outlines it unbelievably well.
So yeah.
Rashed: So again, so we’re, we’re all clear and we’re all on the same page when we’re talking about this currency thing we’re talking about for the sole purpose of trading between. They’re not necessarily looking to replace the local currencies for the purpose [00:43:00] of everyday use. They’re,
Waseem: they’re going to explore that, but they’re not it’s not,
Rashed: But at first it’s not.
At first it’s for trade.
Waseem: And at first it’s for trade only. And everybody wants to get in and use it. And then like they’re, they’re gonna look at instituting a new shared
Rashed: currency. See here, here’s the kicker. And I don’t know how true this is, but I’ve heard a rumor and I’ve read a rumor. Germany’s considering.
Depending on what it’s gonna look like. Every country does does that. If Germany does that, it’s essentially the death of the European Union because they’re the ones that prop up the European Union. Everyone that needs a loan to be in the union and to get the, get their economics and finances in order and their, and their general economy.
It’s Germany that does it
Waseem: well, I mean, we are looking at, at like, this is why this is such a cool. Because mm-hmm. It’s, it’s, it’s like real time, right? Like it’s real time. The fall [00:44:00] and rise of civilizations. Mm-hmm. Like, like now, like everyone is start like, when will this eventually happen? And now we kind of are beginning to see the blueprint of it, right?
Like every civilization falls, everybody falls. No one has never. Right. And it’s just a matter of when and how. And like we’re literally seeing the, like, you know, we saw the markers, the flags pointing, and now we are seeing, oh, the big moves here are the big moves. And that’s very like that. I mean, that’s probably, it’s like, it’s nervous, it’s exciting.
It makes you feel like certain things. And, and as a third culture kid, you, I think you get, you get, you kind of have a front row seat. To this. Mm-hmm. Right? Because you could see the effects on you, and especially a third culture kid of the modern day where you got your social media, you’re, you’re connected, you have information, you have more in common with the third culture in China, the third culture in Brazil.
And answer your question, Rashan about the [00:45:00] currencies. What they were talking about is probably Russia, India, and China doing a single currency. Because like they’re, they’re close to each other. They trade a stupid amount together. They’re like right next to each other. So Brazil, South Africa would, would do something else or maybe, or whatever.
Yeah. But like,
Rashed: you know what, what you just, what, what, what you just said about watching the blueprint and, and how it relates to a third culture individual, for example, it, there’s a parallel between what’s happening now and what happened at the end of World War I. With essentially the fall of empires, like the final fall of empires, Ottoman Empire being the biggest one, obviously in the British Empire, but still, whatever.
But the Ottoman Empire being, cuz at that time the Ottoman Empire was fucking huge still. But the thing is, is, and and then you had the, the other empires in Europe that fell as well. Yeah. So the thing is, is that we’re talking about third culture individuals and we’re talking about, you know, they have stories.
They [00:46:00] probably still have stories from the grandparents or possibly great-grandparents who live that. And so there’s potential based on the stories that their, that their ancestors told them basically that, you know, there’s potential trauma involved, like generational trauma involved in that whole process they went through.
Because what would’ve happened, like their grandparents for example, would’ve had to have fled wherever they were. Because of all the shifting stuff that’s going on. And what do they do? They, they develop things like the the World League or what eventually becomes the United Nations and all these ki and all these different international bodies to like kind of fix the destruction of, of the world order, I guess you can say.
Or like just of how things are running. And it’s always something that was interesting to me to be like, how would it be like to live in that kind of scenario? It’s like, oh shit, I’m, we’re living it like a hundred years later, we’re living it. It
MJ: didn’t have to be like this. When George Bush came into Office, America had record surplus.
I just wanna be clear [00:47:00] that, Hmm. There’s two different, like these are two independent factors. What? Like Brazil, the bricks are, And what America did, these are two different things because they put themselves in this position through entitlement and complacency. They had record surpluses. They went in and got into two wars, never ending wars where that money went, what we achieved what we got out of it.
And in the middle of that, because of those wars, we had the biggest financial crash, the global recession, 2000 and. Well, was is saying right now about the banks about the Nia, the signs of the end of this, the fall is we’ve started seeing the banks going under again in the us and the same reaction.
There’s nothing, there was no analysis after any of the, you wanna talk about traumas? The last 20 years as an American has been nothing. From one trauma to the next. And that’s what amazes me. I’m not even joking. It, it’s, this is what amazes me is that we just get [00:48:00] up and do the next thing. Like it’s, there’s no planning, there’s no thinking, there’s no a analysis.
These are all first world tools. This is what you, the were first world taught me and you refuse to use them. In fact, I would. I as personal experience, I’m telling you, Americans get very insulted when you come from the third world and tell them that you are like, this is wrong, this is wrong. They’re not happy about hearing.
They’re very much in defensive mode that no, no, go back to where you came from. Then if it’s all good, the, it’s not like, yeah, like I would like to believe at one point there was like a Rockefeller who’s like, yo, this guy, he’s outside. He’s different. Like he’s got complaints. I want to hear your complaints because I wanna get better.
It’s the opposite. I don’t want to, it’s like here, the psychologically, it’s the same thing. Like I don’t want to hear your complaints cuz I don’t want to get better. I don’t want to. When you don’t wanna grow, you are third world. When you want to grow, when you wanna do the hard work, even if it means buying the hard work from someone else buying the homework, which Dubai has done, it’s still [00:49:00] progression, it’s still growth.
When you talk about Steve, the Saudi, the countries becoming friends with Israel, whatever, however they did that, put that aside. The fact that they did it is still progressivism in some way, sense or shape,
Rashed: or. Yeah, I mean, like really it’s, it, I mean you just hit a huge nail on the head in the sense of talking about identity.
In this sense, we’re not talking about third culture identity. We’re talking about specifically about Americans, for example. Not willing to accept the fact that their country has aspects of third old countries now, I mean, the correct term is developing countries, but they’re not willing to accept the fact that they have aspects, I mean, Go, go to some parts of the United States, like, and, and the infrastructure is deplorable in terms of road systems, in terms of like sewage systems, in terms of, of, of housing.
Like you go to some of the backwater counties in like [00:50:00] Louisiana or Oklahoma, like especially parts in the American South. You’re like, this I am I looking at like some. Where am I? I’m not in the United States. Like these people don’t have running water. They have sewage.
Waseem: Man.
MJ: The bus at train stations alone of any Midtown
Rashed: American shocked Detroit scared the crap.
Me. Yeah. Detroit scared the crap. Me when I had to take the bus through, through Detroit. Once
MJ: they’re so run down and like shabby looking, and they’re actually known for being sketchy at night when you go to the bus station to meet the sketch. And this is known and no one like coming from Dubai where terminals at the airport, the bus stations are like fully AC and it’s a shopping center and it’s an experience.
Even like a mini bus station. A mini bus stop is an experience in
Waseem: Dubai.
Rashed: Well, in the United, it’s a different type of experience in the United States, it’s an experience of, of. Learning how to keep your head down and don’t get involved in shit because you might get shot. I mean, let’s just get real or [00:51:00] shit.
I dunno.
Waseem: And,
MJ: and like the list goes on, bro. School shootings infrastructure issues, political turmoil, economic. Political upheaval,
Waseem: economic term, mental, mental health housing, like even without that, like just the mental health housing and the like, you know, the, it, it seems like the streets aren’t safe.
The public transport isn’t safe. I mean, this is, this is the same in Toronto, like no, Toronto, it’s Toronto’s a Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and looking to see who’s in charge here, like who can help? Like what, what is this? Why is this happening? And it’s, I think it’s part of the stuff that we had talked about on this, on this episode.
Like these are part of the things that, that lead to this, to this thing. So here’s
Rashed: the thing. So when we talk about the identity aspect, we’re talking about like the third culture people and all that kind of stuff. Like they’re, they’re families escape this crap, and now they’re living it As a 25 year old person, you’re like, what the hell?
Like, we’re supposed, we’re in Canada, the United States, we’re supposed to have it better than what my parents. That’s
MJ: exactly 100%. That’s the, the, so [00:52:00] listeners, dear listeners, if I come off kind of rough or anything, it’s because I feel like I was mis advertised or like false advertising in a lot of respects.
In all honesty. And if I do criticize either America, Pakistan, or any place in the world, it’s because I truly love these places. And being Pakistani, being Asian, being Muslim, when you love something, you whip it. You don’t show it
Waseem: love.
MJ: You can see telling laughs from both of them. You’ll not get a, you won’t get a pat on the head for an A, but you will get like a slap for not an a plus.
Waseem: Hmm. As. That’s wonderful. That’s perfect. That’s a great place to wrap up as we wrap up this so provoking episode of Third Culture Convos. We, we firstly just wanna thank all our listeners for joining us in this exploring of the shifting sands of global power dynamics and [00:53:00] their impacts on the lives of third culture.
Kids like us, we’ve covered a lot of ground today discussing the emergence of the bricks countries and then the potential decline of the. And many ways that these changes can influence our sense of identity and belonging in the interconnected world that we live in. So we hope our conversation has set some light on the complexities of navigating life at the conversions of societies and the importance of understanding the broader historical and political context in which we find ourselves.
The world is changing, and as third culture kids, we have a unique perspective that allows us to. Grow and contribute positively to the global community. So before we say goodbye, we just wanna remind everyone to subscribe to the third culture convos on your favorite podcast platform, and follow us on social media for updates behind the scenes contents and important opportunities to engage with us directly.
We also encourage you to share your experiences and thoughts, and please do share your experiences and thoughts on today’s topics and the comments, or by reaching out to us directly. Once again, thank you for tuning in. I’m mu. [00:54:00] With alongside MJ and Rash, and we look forward to continuing the conversation in our next episode.
Until then, take care and keep exploring the fascinating world of the third culture. Peace. Peace guys. Bye guys.